The right's obsession with talking process on HCR is that you know you can't talk substance and win the argument. So you resort to hyperbole about socialism on the one hand and mind-numbing procedural minutiae on the other.

Talk about subsidies to cover more lower income families? Coverage that can't be denied for pre-existing conditions? A bill that actually lowers the federal deficit?

Nah. Can't talk about that stuff.

We've discussed those issues, Pragmatist. Perhaps you didn't read us on those days, or perhaps the conversation has been over your head.

Talk about subsidies to cover more lower income families?

At what cost to slightly better-off families and the economy? As I've said time and time again, we'd be better off deregulating healthcare to lower prices, make less-comprehensive policies feasible, and encourage other social strata than government to help out.

Coverage that can't be denied for pre-existing conditions?

Again... at what cost? And again... changing the nature of healthcare provision in the direction of deregulation would assist here, inasmuch as people would carry their policies with them, rather than risk disruption with each job change. Indeed, it might create incentive to bring in high-value, low-cost young folks into the insurance pool if it's a way to avoid ever having a "pre-existing" condition.

A bill that actually lowers the federal deficit?

That's simply another lie from the president and Congressional Democrats.

Justin at least we can take some solace in the fact that Pragmatist and his ilk will suffer the same devastating economic/healthcare consequences as we will when this corrupt house of cards comes tumbling down.

Pragmatist just how much of a bailout is Massachusetts seeking from the feds to fund their failing version of Obamacare?? Just how much has the cost of healthcare gone down in Mass?? Take a good hard look to the north Prag and enjoy the pain because it's only just begun even for folks like you. If there is one upside to this madness it's that Democrats and the looniest of libs will suffer and suffer greatly under the $$weight$$ and wait of Obamacare.
Sweet justice! ;-)